Fair Trade: The Simple Economics of Why Game Developers Should Shut Up About Used Games, Part 1


7/15/2009 8:40 AM | 48 Comments | Page 1 of 2

David Thomas
David Thomas
Status: Ever just feel like eating cookies?
Attention game developers:

You may not like it, but I am going to trade in my used games for new games. There's nothing you can do to stop me and I am going to laugh all the way to the bank.

I am sorry that you feel that I am ripping you off, robbing you of the fruits of your labors, and kicking you in your creative loins. It makes me sad that it makes you sad. But you've got to admit that paying $30 for Gears of War 2 sure beats paying $60!

Maybe it doesn't seem fair to you that GameStop brought in over $2 billion selling used games last year while you are watching your game scores tank at Metacritic. But man, I gotta make my gaming dollar go as far as it can in this economy. Money doesn't grow on trees! So, used games it is.

It's not that I don't care. It's something else and I think we need to talk. There's something you need to hear. So let's start at the beginning.

Fair Trade: The Simple Economics of Why Game Developers Should Shut Up About Used GamesWhy buy those full-priced games when you can clip coupons for used games, just like Mom?
Remember back in school, when you were designing D&D modules during economics class? Well, I was paying attention. And when you sprinkle a little Econ 101 on the subject of used games, you'll find out that used-game sales are good for the industry and, in the long run, good for you.

That's right, used games are good for me and good for you. Heck, used games are good for the entire videogame industry.

I know, I know. But just calm down and listen. If you don't agree when I am done explaining my side of things, then I'll listen to you. I care, I really do care.

So take a deep breath and hear me out. My story, like so many, starts with supply and demand...


Making our demands clear: the price of fun

Here's something you don't need to go to business school to figure out:

The reason the game industry exists is because gamers want to play games.

It seems kind of obvious. But it's the key to understanding the entire game market.

Now, as rabid as game fans can be, they aren't, by and large, stupid. So your average game fan would just as soon pay as little as possible for a game. If you want to play Rock Band, for example, and your friend is, let's say, heading off to jail, and he offers to give you his rig while he's doing three to 15 years of hard time, then you say "OK." You want to play Rock Band and maybe you'd be willing to pay up to $200 for the chance in any other circumstance. But here you are -- someone will give you the game for free. Why pay more? Even though it's worth $200 to you to own the game, getting it for free means that's $200 more dollars you can spend on something else.

See, it's not science. It's just common sense.

Fair Trade: The Simple Economics of Why Game Developers Should Shut Up About Used GamesThe logic of this flier is baffling. But Mario is cute!
Game makers may make games for the love of it. But the game business exists solely because gamers are willing to pay more than zero for games. And under normal circumstances, where convicted felons are not offering their cool games for free to their friends, gamers optimize by spending as little as necessary to get what they want. Or, to put it into more pop-cultural terms, you can always get what you want; it's just a matter of negotiating the best price possible.

And price happens to be the most wonderful Mexican standoff known to the free market. A game developer tries to charge as much as they can for their precious product, and the game buyer tries to spend as little as possible. In practice this is as poetic as a John Woo gun battle.

Here's how it works.

In the Rock Band example, you want to play the game so bad that you would be willing to pay $200 for the opportunity. The game, however, is $179 in the store and your friend will give it to you for free. What's the game worth? Zero? $179? $200? Something else?

Of course, it depends.

We can guess that EA, as the publisher, sets the price of Rock Band at $179 for one of two main reasons:

1. It knows that there are a range of prices that it could charge. Some players would probably pay $300 or more. Others are cheap and won't buy the game for more than $100. EA crunches the math and figures that it will make the most money by splitting the difference, and comes up with $179. It doesn't know how much an individual gamer will pay -- because what any one person will pay depends on a lot of things, like how much money they need each month for rent or porn, or if they will just use their parents' money and don't care how much it costs. Gamers, it turns out, are a diverse bunch. So the game publisher more or less guesses the highest amount that the most people are willing to pay.

2. The game costs less than $179 to manufacture and sell. In most cases, it probably costs a lot less than this to make the plastic and put the box on a truck to your local Target.

So they put a sticker on it that reads $179 and everyone figures this is what is worth, even though it's just an educated guess about what people are willing to pay.

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Comments

  • DavidThomas
    DavidThomas

    10/5/2009 7:09:26 PM

    @haysoos:

    You have the free market idea presented in the article down, I'd say.

    The reason no one complains about Gamefly is that they are not making a billion dollars off their market. If they were, I think that would be an issue too.

    How does the movie industry compete with Blockbuster--by reducing prices on new DVDs and packing in extras that make you want to buy it. The game industry is doing the same thing.

    I think this issue is driving change in the industry. And during the short term, those used sales do cannibalize sales. I had one source estimate off the record that it's the the tune of $600 million. Is that right? I dunno. But that's enough money that the game industry is looking for ways to keep more of the pie.

    And that's the role of developers, I'd say. Give a gamer a reason not to trade in used games and they will stop.

    Reply »
  • haysoos
    haysoos

    10/5/2009 5:02:38 PM

    @evohollywood:

    Really good points.

    What I don't understand is who has determined that someone buying a used game @ $30 is a lost sale? Would that person pay full price if that was the only option? We don't know. I'm not going to make myself sound stupid by saying no, just like I think it's stupid to assume yes to that question.

    Also, where does gamefly factor into this? I've played one $60 game each month without paying full price, I've just payed gamfly something like $24 a month to rent 2 games at a time. So sometimes I've gotten $120 worth of gaming for just $24, So how can this not be a big dent with developers? Don't say its because gamefly is buying retail discs, I'll just say that Gamestop didn't get a shipment of new games and used games. Every used game on the shelf was purchased at retail somewhere at some point. But I feel theres a big parallel. Lets say that gamestop sells 300 copies of Tears of war, and each copy comes back twice, so thats 3 gamers served per copy, total of 900. Now, how many people have rented say Fatman: Barkum Asylum compared to how many copies Gamefly purchased? Is it better than 1:3? I would think its a lot bigger, like 1:50. So how is it that this isn't killing business...?

    Also, I've seen developers use the arguement that the retailer and publisher make the big shares, but honestly, how is that not your own fault? I understand that things work certain ways, but how can you blame your customers for you not negotiating better?

    Reply »
  • Scrimshaw

    7/22/2009 9:16:51 PM

    @seanflyon:

    Yes, by business, I did mean the retailer, not the developers. As an employee, I worked for GameStop, not the individual developers.

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/21/2009 1:45:02 PM

    @Scrimshaw:

    "And, to be fair, it really is better in every way for the business and the consumer." If by "business" you are referring to GameStop and not the industry in general then you are completely correct.

    I am not going to complain when someone transfers a transferable license. I will complain when people say that its good for developers. I want the Gamer to be informed so that they know that if they spend the extra $5, the developer gets an extra $20 or so. If the gamer would rather keep the $5, that is their choice.

    Reply »
  • Scrimshaw

    7/20/2009 11:55:05 PM

    @shponglefan:

    "I'm not familiar with Gamestop so I don't know their pricing policies. I tend to buy used games from EB and at least for myself, typically don't spend more than $30 a game. "

    GameStop bought out EB (oh, right, there was a "merger") a few years ago. The policies and practices are identical, as they are the same company =)

    Reply »
  • Scrimshaw

    7/20/2009 11:50:25 PM

    "(unless they for so ludicrous reason actually prefer a used copy)." sic

    As an ex GS manager I can say that I often convinced someone who came in to purchase a new game that they would be better off purchasing a used copy. That's part of the job.

    Example.

    Sue comes in to buy her boy a copy of that "new Wii Box 360 game that's Grand Auto something or the other". I show her three different console's controllers, she tells me which little Johnny plays. I explain the games rating and she buys the game for her 12 year old who "has already played it at his friend's house, so he might as well own it."

    Now the used game pitch. Well ma'am, we have two versions of the game you're looking for, let me explain the difference to you...

    1. New - $50 Used - $45

    Sue: Why on earth would I buy a used game? Especially if it's only 5 dollars less than new? No thanks, give me the new one.

    2. Well ma'am, Not only is the pre-owned copy less, but since we actually take these into the store and verified the condition ourselves, we actually have a longer guarantee on our used games than we do on our new games. If you have a defect in your new game, you have a very short window of time to bring it to us at the store, and after that you'll have to deal with the manufacturer and send it off and wait to get it back. If you buy used we guarantee it in store for 90 days.

    Sue: Really? I hadn't considered that, I certainly don't want to have to deal with the hassle of mailing anything off...

    3: That's right. In addition to the lower price and the longer guarantee, if you have our Game Informer card you'll save an additional 10% on this game, bringing it down to just over $40 versus $50 new.

    Sue: Oh really? I don't know if I have ...

    Oh that's no problem, we'll get you signed up today (SOLD: used game, membership subscription GAINED: happy customer, 4x the profit of a new game sale)

    All part of the job. And, to be fair, it really is better in every way for the business and the consumer.

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/20/2009 11:25:21 PM

    @shponglefan:

    "1) Residual value provided by the used market gives incentive for people to buy new (since they can resell it later). " OK I have not addressed this in a previous post. I don't think that many people take this into consideration when purchasing a game. I have no data to back this up, but I would guess that a given game would sell more at $55 for a non-transferable license than $60 for a transferable license.

    "2) Cash flows from the used market to the new market from people who can't afford or don't want to buy new games. " Half of the cash flows from the used game market to gamers (the other half goes to GS). Of that half some portion of it is spent on games. Of that portion, some smaller portion is spent on new games. We would be lucky if a third of the money spent on used games finds its way to the new games market.

    Lets say that people are willing to pay $10 more for a transferable license (which I think is a gross overestimation) and 1/3 of money spent on used games finds its way to new games (which mean that aprox 2/3 of money gamers receive for used games goes to new games). That would result in less than $30 to the new games market for each $55 used sale.

    "The only way things could be bad for developers is if cannibalized sales of new games exceed revenue from the above points." The most certain thing in this entire debate is that used sales cannibalize new sales. When someone spends $55 for a used copy of Tears of War, they are demonstrating a willingness to pay at least $55 for the new version (unless they for so ludicrous reason actually prefer a used copy). It is highly likely that they would be willing to pay a few dollars more if there were no alternative. Even if they are not willing to pay a few dollars more it is still highly likely they would be willing to pay $50 for the game when it inevitably drops in price.

    Reply »
  • shponglefan
    shponglefan

    7/20/2009 10:21:04 PM

    @seanflyon:

    When you say, "It is against developers self interest for gamers to transfer said license", you are still ignoring two points:

    1) Residual value provided by the used market gives incentive for people to buy new (since they can resell it later).

    2) Cash flows from the used market to the new market from people who can't afford or don't want to buy new games.

    The only way things could be bad for developers is if cannibalized sales of new games exceed revenue from the above points.

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/20/2009 4:19:21 PM

    @DavidThomas:

    Most games lose money. Most developers can only stay in business if they make enough profit on the occasional hit game to cover their losses on other ones.

    "So, any claims that the used market is hurting developers really should be used games are hurting the publishers" Because no one would ever think that games selling fewer copies would lower the amount a publisher would pay for them. Anything that makes my product worth less makes me get less money. I thought you took econ 101.

    To re-iterate: Gamers who buy a transferable license have every right to transfer it. It is often in their best interest to do so. It is against developers self interest for gamers to transfer said license. Developers don't tent to like things that are against their self interest.

    Reply »
  • Sparcrypt
    Sparcrypt

    7/20/2009 12:39:13 AM

    I used to work at an EB Games and I can tell you - the profit these stores make off a new game is near to nothing. You buy it for 60 bucks, they paid about 50-55 for it.

    Now used games.. wow did we get abused about this. You bring in a brand new game that you paid 60 bucks for and trade it, I give you 30 bucks for it. Then I go to sell it for $55. So many people whinge and cry and say that I should be giving YOU 55 bucks for your game, it's near new! But then how do I sell it? Noones paying $58 for a game they can get for $60 new.

    OK you say.. in that case if you're only giving me $30 for it, why not sell it for $35 or $40? Why only $5 cheaper then what I paid?

    Answer? It DOES get sold for $35. Or $25. Or $15. Not every traded game walks out the door 10 minutes later.. plenty of them sit there for months, or years. And 2 years later the best that game is going for second hand is a lot less then the $30 you got for it. So not only do the pre-owned games need to pretty much sustain the business, they also need to make enough profit so that half of them can be sold at a loss.

    Bottom line, ask any game store manager - if it wasn't for pre-owned games there wouldn't BE any games stores, they would all go under.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/19/2009 1:42:20 PM

    @DavidThomas:

    What about rentals David? They want to get into that too because "it is hurting them so much."

    I didn't ever have a problem with game developers talking about this until some jackholes started talking about nerfing the game for everyone except the first purchaser by making them pay an extra fee or by disabling some part of the gameplay.


    That's not going to help anyone out in my opinion.

    Reply »
  • DavidThomas
    DavidThomas

    7/19/2009 11:01:40 AM

    @wicket:

    Oooh. I wasn't going to get dragged back into these arguments. But, dangit! They are just so much fun.

    First off, the $180 game argument is hypothetical. But it happens all the time. Did you ever wonder why "greatest hits" games that were $60 a year or two ago now sell new for $20? What about all those sale games that launched at $60 but sell for $10 at Walmart?

    The point is, there isn't some magical price that a game sells for that makes developers happy as is fair as a result. The developers, well in most cases the publishers, are trying to pull in as much money as possible. So, they charge $60 for a new game, charge $90 for a new game with $5 worth of free junk included and call it a "collectors edition" and wait for sales to slump to keep making the game as a budget title.

    $180 for a game is an illustration of what you would do if you really thought your game was worth $60 to most gamers and that most gamers were going to sell it to their friends three times.

    And one other thing that I think needs clarifying. Many of the conversations in this thread assume that used games hurt developers, as a group. Not likely I'd say. The bulk of the used market I would expect runs on the back of the top 10 games, the big releases that people want. I wish I had some good data at hand, but it's hard to imagine that small, marginal games loose many sales to the used market. People want, and the game stores give better trade credit, for big titles.

    I would ask the game development world to tell me how much they think they lose to used. And I would expect it would only be the big titles that would have anything to complain about.

    One last thing--the economics of the game development business are such that most (not all of course) game development is supported by a publisher investment in a game developer. So, any claims that the used market is hurting developers really should be used games are hurting the publishers.

    Reply »
  • wicket
    wicket

    7/18/2009 5:33:58 PM

    "[if] the publisher thinks it should get $60 every time someone plays the game, then it should just charge $180 from the get-go. [...] the game has been passed along three times, each player has spent the fair $60 that the publisher picked up at the front end of the deal. Everyone is happy."

    So tell me, how exactly did this end up sounding like a good idea to you?
    Instead of charging $60 straight away, giving everyone a brand new copy at the same time, you want the publishers to raise the price, thus *forcing* people to buy used games to get less than they are getting now without anyone gaining anything?

    It is not about the DVD here. This is not like a car, that actually costs money to produce and gets worn down by time. Its not about sharing a limited amount of resources, game copies are basically infinite. It's about sharing the money it cost to develop those games. Just in case you forgot.

    So why not give everyone a brand new copy of the game while equally sharing the costs between everyone?

    I do support the idea of looking for new ways of distribution, but lets not forget, in the end *someone has to pay for it*. Developers do need to eat. That's what money is there for. To SPENT it.

    Reply »
  • shponglefan
    shponglefan

    7/17/2009 9:25:56 PM

    @seanflyon:

    I'm not familiar with Gamestop so I don't know their pricing policies. I tend to buy used games from EB and at least for myself, typically don't spend more than $30 a game.

    At any rate, you're making a problematic assumption of your own in that every gamer buying used over new has the same amount of disposable income and same willingness to buy new if no other option was available. But this isn't reality. In general, more people will buy at $55 than $60.

    Do used game sales canibilize new sales? Probably. But on the other hand, there is uptake of money from the used market into the primary market. At EB, for example, typically they give greater trade-in value than straight up cash value for games. So they are actually encouraging games purchases in the process.

    Something else to consider to is that gamers willing to buy new and sell used probably also factor that into their willingness to buy new. If I know a game has residual value, I may be willing to pay $60 for a new game if I can sell it for $30. OTOH, if I know I can't sell a game, suddenly $60 doesn't seem like such a good deal.

    The nay-sayers like yourself seem too fixated on the fact that there is a middleman making money in this. You need to step back and look at the big picture. Ultimately, it comes down to how much cash is flowing from end consumers to the developers, regardless of whether it flows through middlemen or not.

    Reply »
  • evohollywood

    7/17/2009 9:22:37 PM

    @seanflyon:

    Heh heh, ARGUMENT WON...let's call it a day :)

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/17/2009 9:07:48 PM

    Sorry, near perfect substitute...

    Reply »
  • evohollywood

    7/17/2009 9:03:52 PM

    @seanflyon:

    Used games are in no way perfect substitutes for new games as they cannot exist without the sale of a new game. For something to be a "perfect substitute" in the economic sense it must cause demand for the product it substitutes (new games) to fall to zero if a price difference is present.

    There is a price difference between new and used games, but there is still a very healthy demand for new games. Moreover many consumers presented with a new game and a used game would choose the new game even if it was significantly more expensive. Therefore the consumer does not see the used game as a "perfect substitute" and whether something is defined as such is determined by consumer perceptions.

    Moreover it could be argued that used games likely have a shorter life than new ones (as the disc probably has some damage from previous use)and they often lack proper packaging (which many consumers find value in). They are a substitute, but by no means a perfect substitute.

    Evan

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/17/2009 8:46:19 PM

    @shponglefan:

    I changed it to $55 because thats how much GS charges for used games (when the new version is priced at $60).

    Used games are a perfect substitute for new games. People buy them instead of new games. The vast majority of those people who only have $45 and are willing to pay $45 for it would buy it when it comes down to $45 if no used copy were available. You are trying to argue that each lost sale is made up for by an addition sale with the money gamers get from selling their games. This works about as well as perpetual motion. Most of the money from the used game sale goes to GS, not a gamer. Even if 100% of money gamers get from selling their games at GameStop went to new games it would still be bad for developers because GS it taking most of the money.

    I'm not saying that you can't sell used games. You have every right to transfer a transferable license. I'm saying that developers would be better off if you didn't.

    Short term effects of used game sales:
    Gamers win a little
    GameStop wins a lot
    Developers lose a lot

    The industry would be better off if we dealt in non-transferable licenses such as those sold on Steam.

    Reply »
  • shponglefan
    shponglefan

    7/17/2009 8:13:04 PM

    @seanflyon:

    Gamers B & C don't buy the games at $55 each because they don't have $55 each. They only have $45 each.

    That's the whole point of the scenario. Gamers B&C will not buy a new game at $60 because they can't afford it.

    So if you remove used games sales from the equation, Gamers B&C don't end up buying any games and Gamer A only buys the two. And only $120 instead of $180 goes into the new games market.

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/17/2009 8:04:38 PM

    @shponglefan:

    Gamer A buys 2 new games for $60 each = $120
    Gamer A sells both games for $30 each = $60
    Gamer A buys 1 more game for $60

    Gamers B&C each buy used game for $55 each = $110

    Thats $180 in new game sales out of $230 and thats assuming that Gamer A buys a new game with his $60 he gets from selling his used games. If there is a 50% chance he buys a used game instead, then thats an expected value of $150 on new games. That means the developers get 65.2% of the revenue they would have gotten if those gamers bought new games instead.

    When GS buys a game for $30 (or less) and sell it for $55 they are removing $25 from the system that developers never get a piece of.

    When you do the math you see that the used game market is bad for developers. There is not way around it.

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/17/2009 7:34:26 PM

    When you buy a book or a video game you are purchasing both a license and the physical media. I did not mention the part about the physical media because it is not relevant unless you get off on destroying game disks.

    The license and the physical media are entirely different things. If you make a copy of that Stephen King book then burn the original, you can still read that copy, lend it out or sell it because you still have the license. If you make a copy then sell the original, you may not read, lend out, or sell that copy because you no longer have the license. The license and the physical media could be sold separately (although that would be dumb).

    It's not a license vs durable good argument. The durable good of a video game is the information itself. You can buy that durable good so long as the owner is willing to sell (expect it to cost several million dollars). If I make a game then I own it. I could sell it to you, in which case you would own it (and have every right to sell copies [by copy I mean license] of it). If I chose to retain ownership of my property, then I retain ownership of my property.

    Reply »
  • shponglefan
    shponglefan

    7/17/2009 7:32:46 PM

    I don't understand why developers would oppose the used games market, since ultimately the secondary market will fuel the primary market.

    Gamer A is rich and impatient with $120 in their pocket. They have no problem buying the latest games at brand-new prices, so they head down to a local game shop and buy a couple new games at $60 a pop.

    Meanwhile, you have more frugal gamers (B & C) who don't have as much disposable income as Gamer A. They have $45 each to spend.

    Gamer A spends a couple weeks playing his new games before getting bored and heads back to the store to trade them in. They receive $30 for each game, for a net of $60 back in their pocket. With that $60, they can now buy another brand new game.

    The game shop being a business takes the two games they bought for $30 each and marks them up to $45 each. Gamers B & C now see these used games at $45 a pop, and each buy one.

    The net result of this scenario is that three new games were sold. Money from the secondary market flowed into the primary market and ultimately into the coffers of the developers. The game shop also made a decent profit on the used game sales, and gamers B & C got to play the games they wanted and prices they were willing to pay.

    The bottom line is everyone wins. Why would anyone be against this?

    Reply »
  • GusMastrapa
    GusMastrapa

    7/17/2009 6:59:49 PM

    More and more I'm starting to what drives all those crazy anti-DRM people.

    Reply »
  • DavidThomas
    DavidThomas

    7/17/2009 6:58:26 PM

    @seanflyon:

    This license versus durable good argument is interesting. And, oddly enough, it rears its ugly head in the virtual goods market as well. If the WoW EULA forbids selling in game stuff for real money, then can you do it? I've heard some pretty compelling legal arguments that an online game can't have it both ways--allow people to spend time and money generating value, but not having the right to realize that value.

    But, I digress.

    What I really would like to point out is that the whole division is pretty messy.

    If I buy a copy of a new Stephen King book, did I buy the book (the paper, the print and the binding) or a license to consume the intellectual property contained in that book?

    Seems pretty clear that I can sell the book or light it on fire and charge people to watch. But I can't photocopy and sell the manuscript or perform a play based on it and charge money.

    So, it seems even in the case of books, it's a little bit of a good and a little bit of a license.

    As far as pants are concerned, I think that Levi's doesn't see the economic benefit in licensing pants. Maybe the margins are too small. But wearable circuits might take care of that.

    Be careful what you wish for! Getting rid of used games is one step closer to pants licensing!

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/17/2009 5:55:39 PM

    @evohollywood:
    "Why should game publishers have the government enforce some sort of special treatment? Or are you arguing that the government should police the purchasing and pricing practice of all used media outlets?"

    Calm down. No one is saying that. I certainly agree that would be a terrible idea. I think we all agree about that.

    When you buy a game at GameStop, what you are buying is a license to play that game. When you buy a pair of pants, what you are buying is a pair of pants, not a license. This is not my opinion or "the way I see it". This is fact. @CG-Prophet, you might as well call me arrogant for claiming the sky is blue. If you purchase a transferable license, then you have every legal right to transfer it. If you buy a non-transferable license, you have no right to transfer it (doing so would be a breach of contract).

    If I make a game you have no right to play it unless I let you, just as I have no right to take your money unless you agree to it. We can make any type of agreement we want. I can sell you a transferable license that never runs out (this is the industry standard). I can sell you a non-transferable license that is only valid for 1 month (like a WOW subscription). If you and I make a contract, we are both bound by that contract, and if one of us brakes it, the other has every right to sue for compensation.

    Reply »
  • evohollywood

    7/17/2009 3:58:08 PM

    @MosqCon:

    To say that GameStop pays too little and charges too much for games is fair. The method with which you combat that practice is by consuming and selling elsewhere, you've agreed with that by insisting that people should find used games on eBay. So the real problem you have is that GameStop has done a better job of impacting customers perceptions that it provides a valuable "retail experience" than eBay or craigslist. You rally against the "free market", so in what manner do you imagine policing used game sales so that they could be purchased on eBay but not at GameStop?

    "Used cars aren't an issue because they're devalued. They're not wholly substitutes as someone that wants a new car will likely buy a new car. With videogames that isn't as true, as GameStop often blends used and new on the same shelf. Used cars also serve a segment that car manufacturers can't economically reach."

    Used games are devalued, packaging is lost, disc is more likely to be scratched and has a shorter lifetime, and technologically the graphics and such are not as advanced (as the game has been out for a while). That lines up pretty well with how cars devalue, the second you drive a car off the lot it looses a lot of its value...same thing with a game. Also, new car dealerships often blend "certified" used cars in with new ones...in fact they get a much better margin on used cars than new (yet another similarity). And lastly, used games also serve a sector that cannot afford to spend $60 on a game...believe it or not for some people the difference between $60 and $40 is all the difference in the world.

    I just don't get where you think games are different than books, movies, music albums, or other forms of media? Why should game publishers have the government enforce some sort of special treatment? Or are you arguing that the government should police the purchasing and pricing practice of all used media outlets? All used book stores? All used record stores?

    Evan

    Reply »
  • MosqCon
    MosqCon

    7/17/2009 3:19:45 PM

    @evohollywood:

    Thank you for the economics lesson, but you missed the point:
    Nearly all retail outlets buy from the manufacturer. They're necessary in order to sell a product as direct sales aren't feasible.
    GameStop does this in part.
    But they also buy from the consumer and sell to the consumer. THIS is the problem. You can't walk into a McDonalds and sell them a hamburger.

    Everything is compounded based on the medium. Used cars aren't an issue because they're devalued. They're not wholly substitutes as someone that wants a new car will likely buy a new car. With videogames that isn't as true, as GameStop often blends used and new on the same shelf. Used cars also serve a segment that car manufacturers can't economically reach.

    Yeah, I get your "free market" argument, but it's not entirely relevant. For one, I do feel people are somewhat stupid for not using eBay. Yeah, easier, I know, but with eBay you'll make much more, as games tend to sell near the same price GameStop charges. For another, "free market" isn't the answer to everything. We've stopped quite a bit of things the free market has demanded because it was detrimental to the market as a whole.

    Everyone is making arguments for GameStop because it serves you well in the immediate. But does it serve you well on the long-term? Does it encourage more games to be made? Is it a beneficial contributor to the industry, or is it a parasite?

    No one would ever call a standard retail outlet a parasite...

    Reply »
  • evohollywood

    7/17/2009 1:08:20 PM

    @MosqCon:

    "Instead they go to GameStop and get ripped off. GameStop profits by being a middle man. They make a good amount of money simply for being there without actually contributing to the industry. "

    You just described the business model of every pervasive retail outlet. They make money by paying as little as possible for an input (in this case used games) and then charging as much as possible for that input in another time and to another customer who is looking for it. That's called arbitrage. Publisher's are angry because they aren't the ones providing the inputs in this case, that's their fault...not Gamestop's.

    What they add is a centralized marketplace for buyers and sellers that is ubiquitous. You may not believe it, but that's actually hard to do. There are only so many starbucks, McDonalds, and Gamestops in the world. We live in a free market, if you think GameStop is charging too much for their used games and paying too little then a competitor will emerge and defeat them. That's how a free market functions.

    Evan

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/17/2009 12:33:36 PM

    @MosqCon:

    I agree with you. GameStop is a big part of the problem and publishers and developers have to find a way to deal with it in a way that doesn't punish the consumer. They handle used games like a PAWN SHOP (buy very low, sell very high)and that is why they make so much money.


    I think a system like Stardock's GOO is a step in the right direction because there is compensation for the developer / publisher built in.

    Reply »
  • MosqCon
    MosqCon

    7/17/2009 12:04:52 PM

    I don't think most developers find used games insulting, they find GameStop insulting.

    And I understand that. GameStop pretty much adds nothing yet takes a great deal. GameStop execs are making a mint yet adding nothing to the industry.

    If you buy a used game on eBay you'll get it cheaper.
    If you sell a used game on eBay you'll make more money.
    I don't get why more gamers don't do this.

    Instead they go to GameStop and get ripped off. GameStop profits by being a middle man. They make a good amount of money simply for being there without actually contributing to the industry.

    It's not going anywhere, but I see the frustration. I also don't see GameStop as being good for consumers. I'd never go to them over eBay.

    Reply »
  • DavidThomas
    DavidThomas

    7/17/2009 1:20:07 AM

    @dankru:

    Can I just say--this is a great post.

    Not only does it show why the used game market isn't a big deal, it also shows developers a successful model for making money on used games!

    Reply »
  • dankru
    dankru

    7/17/2009 12:59:21 AM

    While you can usually get a better deal with a private sale or trade through craigslist et al, one thing that no one has mentioned is the almost "loss leader" effect of selling back your game. Nearly each time I visit a Gamestop, I overhear or see someone selling back a game and buying a new one. Obviously this is not the case for each patron, but it's certainly an important feature. Now instead of getting someone into Best Buy once to buy a game, you can get them into Gamestop two or more times to buy a game, sell it back and while selling it back maybe buy something new that the crybaby devs/publishers get their money on.

    Now not only do you generate a secondary market for used games, but it's more attractive because it's less expensive to game. Actually, only in this case does the 'buying a license to play' ring true(IMHO). You are literally buying the experience itself, experiencing it and then reselling the ticket to that experience.

    There are different ways for devs/publishers to mediate the "used game" hole aside from setting a higher initial price. Restrictive license agreements and other arcane methods make gamers the sucker. There are better ways. Steam, XBOX Live, whatever PS3 & Wii uses and to a lesser extent GFWL, DLCs make a used game even more attractive to gamers and are theoretically much more profitable for creators -- since the engine and main game has already been created and [hopefully] refined to a well working state, as long as it's a sensibly successful game it has recouped itself already. Most DLCs are only content expansions - cheap to make, employ artists and developers and provide more game for the consumer.

    Witness Fallout 3 - it's been out for 9 months and there are 4 DLCs available out of a planned 5. Each costs a $10 equivalent in Live points and provides 2-10 hours of additional play depending on the DLC and how you play. Buy the game for $30 and expand your play by quite a bit, especially with Broken Steel & Point Lookout.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/16/2009 10:08:01 PM

    When I hear people talk about how consumers are licensing an experience that comes in a physical box it really sounds arrogant.


    I'm licensing my pants too. Thank you Levis! Can I transfer the license on them to the Goodwill when I give them away?

    Reply »
  • evohollywood

    7/16/2009 10:06:25 PM

    @seanflyon:

    That's what we call a perfectly reasonable proposition. Of course enforcing that license would be a challenge, it would increase the incentive to pirate games...as there would be no cheaper alternative than new games.

    Evan

    Reply »
  • seanflyon
    seanflyon

    7/16/2009 9:08:34 PM

    When you buy a game what you are really buying is a license to play that game. If that license is transferable, then that license is transferable. In most cases gamers do indeed have the right to resell their games.

    What the author seemed to miss (I am baffled by his ability to overlook this) is supply and demand: Game developers sell new games. used games are a perfect substitute for new games. Availability of a substitute lowers demand for new games and thus lowers revenue. Therefore the used game market is very bad for developers (and there is something particularly annoying about being out competed by your own product).

    I say we cut out the middle man and split the $2 billion. We the developers sell non-transferable licenses (like those available on steam) so we don't have to compete with used market. A non-transferable license is worth less than a transferable license, so we charge less for it. You get cheaper new games, we get more sales and we cut out the giant leach on the system that is GameStop.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/16/2009 8:55:30 PM

    @muhca:

    It really sucks that you don't make a lot of money but that has nothing to do with consumers. Retailers and publishers are the ones making all the money and that is who developers need to blame.

    Maybe if retailers didn't take such a huge cut and publishers took better care of their full-time and temporary employees, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Form a union and join it so that you can have someone who looks out for your interests.

    Reply »
  • DavidThomas
    DavidThomas

    7/16/2009 8:51:45 PM

    Mega comments reply (part I)!

    (Sorry, I am out of town this week and have to batch my Net life this week)

    Great comments. And they make me think that most people understand the underlying logic of game pricing, even without a long-winded examination of the subject .

    But to clarify a few things (and maybe some of this makes more sense after reading the epic PART 2 of this article):

    @NeoDodge EA might charge more, but they would have to give you twice as much as what you expect for a $60 game. That's the basic argument, that you actually get what you pay for. And, by the way, WoW does charge something like $120 a year to play that game, and no one seems to complain!

    @KyleOrland Exactly. Resale is figured into price. Maybe not for everyone. But on average, if you expect to get $20 back on your game, then the game is worth $40 + $20 + pain in the ass factor for trading it.

    @CG-Prophet Yes. But game developers see their work as a non-durable good, as if you could eat your Burger King burger, enjoy it, and then sell it again. Thus, the longer form of the argument is needed to show why games are not pants, but the result is more or less the same. (And now I have fulfilled my lifetime goal to write the phrase "why games are not pants") @Maazer I think there is a whole 'nother rant in the topic of "Why games are $60". And, in fact, the free to play game market shows that publishers are looking for ways to escape that hard and fast price point.

    @FYI, Hi Not sure I follow your logic. Since $60 is sort of a price standard, then the production of games works backwards to that price, I think. And, further, I would assume that not a lot more copies of the Sims would sell with a lower starting price point. Why do you think that they would? And why do you think indies factor piracy into their pricing, but not the majors.

    Reply »
  • VinsanityV23
    VinsanityV23

    7/16/2009 7:52:00 PM

    Man, I had to register just to comment on things. Firstly, developers and publishers SHOULDN'T shut up about this; this is the only form of media where people can make money off of it without having any talent. What did Gamestop do to earn any profit here? Did they model the characters? Compose the music? Code the damn thing? Hell no - it's practically stealing profits from the talent that makes them, and if that's not worth being vocal about, than I don't know what is.

    Secondly, gamers are morons. Why would you buy a used game of questionable quality when you could just get a new game A)on-line (tons of deals on the internet, we all know that), or B)a few weeks after they came out. If a game is too expensive at $60, than buy it next month for $40. We've all know that good games are good forever, so why must people buy a game used in it's launch window. Really stupid. No one ever mentions how prices naturally decline to reasonable levels quickly, especially if a game is underperforming. Pick up older games if it's too expensive to buy new ones; simple.

    That being said, I don't like how the western gaming landscape is basically following Hollywood's overblown budgets and issues. It IS ridiculous, these million dollar productions, the 4 year development cycles, and the 60 dollar price tags. Gameplay comes first, and while you'll always have people like Valve and Id pushing the technical envelope, at some point it's just too much. In the time it took to make Killzone 2, Guerilla could've made three PS2 games. And it's not like PS2 era games were ugly; that generation gave us Doom 3, Chronicles of Riddick, Resident Evil 4 and God of War II. That's more than enough; this generation is one of excess, and there should be more "smaller" games by these triple-A teams. There's such a thing as too much, and when your game equals $60, it's too big a production. Especially for sequels; something like Bioshock 2 is built on existing tech.It should be $40 or $50.

    Reply »
  • Palalong
    Palalong

    7/16/2009 3:10:48 PM

    A contrast to that would be, if you want people to buy your games as opposed to trading them off from friends, make your game good enough to want to keep. Now when I say "good enough" I don't mean slap in a bogus achievement system to leach out extra play time. Take Fallout 3 for example, it's good and I would recommend it to friends, but they can GET THEIR HANDS OFF my copy!

    Reply »
  • muhca
    muhca

    7/16/2009 2:42:53 PM

    Unfortunately, dev teams don't make a whole lot of money. Out of the 60$ that gamers dish out for game, devs get a very small percentage. Retailers and publisher take a large cut. On average for a AAA title, a 30$ game is sold at cost.

    So no, we won't shut up, our livelihood depends on it. If you don't want to pay, you don't play.

    Reply »
  • CG-Gabe

    7/16/2009 1:30:53 PM

    Testing. Don't mind me.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/16/2009 2:15:05 AM

    @Maazer:

    While I agree with you that GameStop is a good thing for gaming, I wish they were a bit more consumer friendly with the sell back. Someone who paid 59 bucks for a game and beat it in two days really feels ripped off when they take it back and get $25 bucks or less. Did it really depreciate that much in a few days?

    I gave up on GameStop a long time ago and prefer private sales because I can get a better return. Of course that money will go right back into GameStop or another company anyway.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland

    7/16/2009 12:51:46 AM

    Felt I had to share this with the class. Hilarious.

    http://www.destructoid.com/the-disgusting-truth-about-used-games-139928.phtml

    Reply »
  • FYI, Hi
    FYI, Hi

    7/15/2009 11:56:42 PM

    I agree with everything up until your last point. Price theory tells us that every one of the factors you mentioned should be taken into account when pricing a game. Adjusting price to account for piracy certainly exists in the world of indie game, be it the pc, psn or xbox marketplace. But for whatever reason it is, there seems to be a law that retail games need to drop at $60, at the very least for the first week. Could anyone doubt how many more copies of The Sims 3 would've sold if they were charging $40 right out of the gate? This guy right here thinks enough to offset the degree to which it was pirated :(

    Reply »
  • Maazer
    Maazer

    7/15/2009 8:01:37 PM

    $60 is still a rough price for a game in this economy, but it's fair. When developers release their title, they're making an unspoken agreement with their customers that the game will be $60. There's no going back, unless they decide to send you a bill when Xbox Live detects your purchased game disc in your friend's 360.

    I think if we didn't have a used game system as powerful as Gamestop's, gamers wouldn't be playing as much as they are today. I'm thankful for the amount of gaming that takes place, considering it could be way worse.

    And as for Rock Band, who would want to borrow someone's plastic drum set when you can buy one without a broken pedal and responsive triggers? Gaming will continue to thrive as long as the devs keep throwing out innovative titles.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet

    7/15/2009 12:32:32 PM

    I won't comment too much until I read part II, but so far, so good. But imagine if David was talking about stereo equipment or a pair of pants. The argument against used games looks silly if we are talking about any other product.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland

    7/15/2009 11:14:06 AM

    This article skirts but doesn't exactly state what I think is the key to this argument: The ability to sell games to a place like Gamestop makes new games MORE valuable to the consumer.

    Many if not most consumers, when they buy Tears of War 2, are willing to spend $60 for a new copy of Tears of War 2 precisely because they know they can sell it back for $20 if they don't like it or if they blaze through it in a week. Take away that sell-back ability, and suddenly the game doesn't look like such a good deal at $60. You'd probably have to charge $40 to get that same consumer if game reselling was somehow illegal.

    So instead of seeing the $55 used copy as a new game sale you missed out on, try instead looking at it as $20 more you can charge for each new copy you sell. Not such a bad deal now, eh?

    Of course, this all assumes you have a game that people will want to buy in the first place, which can be a real problem, I admit...

    Reply »
  • NeoDodge
    NeoDodge

    7/15/2009 10:16:22 AM

    Wow. Clever as the whole thing is, I'm now fearing that EA may start charging a hundred bucks for its future releases... (and yet, some time ago already, I imagined myself co-buying my games with a pal, which startlingly looks like your "chain-buy" process in some manner).

    Reply »

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