So I just played "that part" of Modern Warfare 2

by Kyle Orland | 10. November 2009 19:32 | permalink

   

 

You probably already know the part I'm talking about. Yes, THAT one. Officially it's called "No Russian." Unofficially it's called "that controversial airport scene." Those who don't want MAJOR SPOILERS should stop reading now. Those who want to know my initial, gut check reactions to what's sure to become one of the most talked about scenes in all of gaming, read on.

 

As a game journalist, I certainly knew what I was getting in to when Modern Warfare 2 sent me on an undercover mission with a group of Russian terrorists. While I'd avoided detailed spoilers as best I could, I knew I was going into a scene where those terrorists would shoot unarmed civilians en masse in an airport, and that I would be expected (but not required) to help them.

Going in, I was relatively sure that the whole controversy was being blown out of proportion. I figured that the brewing anger over the scene was being driven by misleading, uninformed, out of touch or just plain inaccurate reports of the content, much as it had been with recent sex "scandals" surrounding Mass Effect and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

I was wrong.

The incongruity of the scene is evident from the start, as my character and a group of four Russians walk casually out of an elevator, into a busy airport waiting area, armed with heavy automatic weapons. As the Russians arrange themselves in a semi-circle behind a ticket line, guns on their shoulders, it's easy to deny that what I know is about to happen will be so bad. It's only when we actually draw our weapons on the unsuspecting crowd that the gravity of the situation begins to sink in. This isn't the usual shoot-or-be-shot carnage of countless first-person shooters. This is going to be a massacre.

Even though the gun in my hand is my only way of interacting with the world around me, I'm not about to fire the first shot into the crowd. This ends up being a non-issue, as my four companions quickly and wordlessly open fire simultaneously, spraying an indiscriminate spread of bullets into the unsuspecting travellers. I find myself struck dumbfounded, not so much by the act, which I knew was coming, but by the incredible detail in its rendering. The squirting blood, the collapsing, slumped piles of bodies, the panicked shrieks, the survivors congealing into a confused mass of motion as they desperately try to get away -- they all combine to give the scene a raw intesity that I wasn't expecting.

And there's nothing I can do to stop it. I mean, I could turn the game off, but that's just avoiding the situation, right? So, grimly, I follow my terrorist companions as we march down the terminal, watching as they fire at disconnected groups of panicked survivors. By the escalators, I notice one man in a blue checkered shirt who somehow survived the initial assualt, crawling on his knees with one hand and clutching a wound in his side with the other. I walk up to him and aim right at his temple, considering for a long moment whether or not to put him out of his misery, but I just can't pull the trigger. An unseen terrorist ends up making the decision for me as I hear a bullet whiz by and see the man slump over, a red line shooting out of his skull as he does.

From 30 yards off, I watch as another terrorist lays down fire from a balcony to the gate area below. I hear the screams of the victims, but for some reason the game won't let me sprint or jump over obstacles to get to his side fast enough for a better view of the carnage. When I do finally catch up and look down, all I see is a chilling mass of still, crumpled bodies littering the floor.

As we walk downstairs into that pile of bodies, I'm already feeling a little numb. I thought I as prepared for this, but the sheer realism of the scene is proving to be a little too much for me. This time, when I notice a few more survivors slumped against the wall, bloody and coughing, I feel I have to do something. I end up putting myself between the terrorists and these victims, turning and pointing my gun at the attackers as if to say, "If you want to finish the job on these guys, you have to go through me."

Soon we're out on the tarmac, eagerly awaiting the inevitable and expected police response to our massacre, and the game switches from "kill unarmed civilians" mode back to its usual "kill armed guys that are in turn trying to kill you" mode. I hide silently behind a plane tire and watch as my Russian "friends" fire on the riot-shielded cops, hoping I can just wait this out and get through this awful mission without firing a single shot. After a few minutes of waiting, I realize this isn't an option, and that the game won't continue unless I break out my rocket launcher and help bust through the cops.

So I bust out the heavy weaponry and turn towards the riot police, and that's when I notice my targeting reticle turn green as I pass briefly over one of the terrorists. And that's when it hits me. That's when I realize... I could have stopped them.

I mean, I had a gun the whole time. What was stopping me from turning it on these terrorists and trying to prevent the massacre I knew they were planning? Sure, in the context of the story firing on the Russians would definitely blow my cover (and definitely go againt the spirit of the game) but such academic concerns flew out the window when I saw that first spray of bullets hit that quivering, panicking crowd. I didn't have to just watch the carnage unfold. I could have done something!

I try to make up for my tardy revelation by firing a rocket at the Russian in my sights. "Traitor!" cry my former allies, turning on the spot and gunning me down almost immediately. I'm such an idiot. I could have stopped them. I could have at least tried! When the game starts again, throwing us back slightly to the airport hangar, I immediately fire on the Russians again, only to be left a bloody heap mere seconds later. What was I thinking? I could have done something! Again and again I try to exact revenge on the terrorists that caused all this brutality, and again and again I'm gunned down. I know these efforts won't bring back the people they killed -- and on a deeper level, I know that the people they killed are just digital bits in a computer and pixels on a screen -- but I don't care. I have to do something. Why did I just stand there as they killed those people? Why didn't I try to stop them?

These questions haunt me during the dozen or so belated, failed attempts I make to take out the Russians. It's clear the game isn't going to let me be the hero here and avenge the mass murder they've pre-ordained. I eventually submit, becoming a good little undercover soldier and blasting through the riot cops, on my way to the somewhat shocking twist ending to the whole sordid scene.

I'm left a little numb by what I've witnessed. I had thought years of violent games had hardened my heart to pretty much any violence I could take part in on a video screen, that I was desnsitized enough to watch dispassionately, knowing all along that it was "just a game."

I was wrong. I don't know whether or not "No Russians" crosses some invisible line of bad taste or morality or anything like that. But I do know that it is easily the most affecting scene I've taken part in in a video game so far, and for that alone it deserves careful attention.

Currently rated 2.6 by 150 people

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Comments

  • Makarov
    Makarov

    12/21/2009 12:48:59 AM

    In real life, I would have done the same..
    I'd kill those bitches and tards like you.
    It's just a game, be real.

    -Makarov
    Killing russians, again and again.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet
    Game Trust Member
    CG-Prophet (Game Trust Writer)

    12/12/2009 7:35:28 PM

    @evohollywood:

    Hey now! They have MANswers, which is a damn fine show.

    Reply »
  • evohollywood
    evohollywood

    12/12/2009 7:28:55 PM

    @MrAnnonymous:

    Yeah dude man bro-seph! You're so much more of a man than this guy, you would totally beat him in a MAN-cathlon especially the "Not Being Affected by the Realistic Depiction of the Slaughter of Innocents" event. You're an idiot, I bet your favorite channel is Spike.

    Evan

    Reply »
  • MrAnnonymous
    MrAnnonymous

    12/12/2009 6:41:21 PM

    Wow dude, man the fuck up. It's just a game. What's the big deal about going around killing...in a game...where the premise is to kill people in the first place.
    Oh well...you're clearly quite the pussy.

    Reply »
  • packerq
    packerq

    12/9/2009 7:07:56 PM

    OMFG!!!! ITS A FUCKING GAME YOU PUSSY!!!!!! seriously man up all you little girls that think its so disturbing...

    Reply »
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  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/14/2009 6:13:49 PM

    Well I broke down today and bought the game and I played "No Russian" but unfortunately, probably due to all the talking about it and seeing it on YouTube, it had no affect on me whatsoever. I shot people down left and right, annoyed at the slow pace they make you walk. It actually makes it more of a sport to shoot people running away than actually coming at you. I kinda liked it...

    Reply »
  • pugster
    pugster

    11/14/2009 9:34:43 AM

    @Borderline769:

    It would be great if someone tried to do that in a game, I agree, but they'd have to do much, much better than this cack-handed attempt. It takes skill and thought to be able to subvert a medium and push it forwards. Maybe the ambition was good, but the execution is just puerile and immature.

    I've just thought of one way of improving this level - give the player blanks instead of bullets. Think about it: they know you're CIA anyway, why would they give you the chance to shoot them? Then the player doesn't feel cheated when he can't stop the carnage. If anything, it would make him hate them more as he's even more powerless.

    Reply »
  • Worm
    Worm

    11/14/2009 3:13:53 AM

    They put in this scene as a cheap press grab, and boy did NGJ ever bite in hook line and sinker?

    Reply »
  • Borderline769
    Borderline769

    11/13/2009 8:28:37 PM

    @pugster:

    That's not what I mean at all. The entire COD series is based on the same theme. The Hero is always right, and the war is always far away. Infinity Ward tried to shake that up this time. They gave us several missions where the Hero was unquestionably wrong, several where right and wrong were indistinct, and they brought the war home.

    Reply »
  • pugster
    pugster

    11/13/2009 4:57:11 PM

    @Borderline769:

    the problem is that you're not allowed to behave like the person in the other shoes: the game won't let you. The developers don't have the courage of their convictions. If you remember you're in the shoes of a 'good guy' under cover with the 'bad guys', which does not mean that he's magically transformed into a terrorist. What you're describing would be a terrorist simulator game, which I don't think IW would actually have the balls to make.

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  • Borderline769
    Borderline769

    11/13/2009 12:56:51 PM

    Why does no one seem to understand that the entire point of this game was to put the player in the other sides shoes? Every other game you have played would have been 4 heroes against hundreds of terrorists in an airport.

    How about fighting on the side of the invaded country for once? As an Iraq veteran, I was far more affected while trying to secure Burger Time then the airport. The detail in the airport was a little off putting at first, until about halfway through when I see all the flights on the big board tick over to Delayed (not canceled?). Someone apparently thought they should change the board instead of running for their lives...but that afterward people would still catch their flight?

    Did no one notice that Shepard is not a bad guy? Our 141 team nuked the US, destroying the ISS in the process. Are we really surprised he decides to take out 141 afterward? Sure he does it in a cold blooded way, but targeted to just remove the "bad elements" from the force.

    I think this nuance was lost on 98% of the players, and about 90% of the reviewers. I'd like to criticize Infinity Ward for that, but I hate having a stories point clubbed into me repeatedly. If I wanted that, I'd watch day time TV.

    This game asks you to think. To consider the other sides perspective. How would it feel to be part of a terrorist act? How would it feel to be the invaded country? How can the "bad guy" in life justify his actions?

    If you look deeper, rather then expecting everything to be spoon fed to you in small "morally correct" portions, you will find that infinity ward did a very good job on this game.

    Reply »
  • pugster
    pugster

    11/13/2009 8:48:31 AM

    Only watched the video, but that had a real impact. Some thoughts:

    1. yes, it's just a game. It's not real, and nor are films or books or music. But the feelings and thoughts they evoke, at least in some people, are very real indeed. I don't think IW have thought enough about that. They don't have sufficient respect for their audience.

    2. Context and style make a difference, just like in film. That's why the last Rambo film was worse than the previous ones - the 'gritty realism' made the violence sickening rather than fun.

    IW have done the same thing. The CoD games are *not* realistic - they avoid all the really horrible shit that war involves - and yet they see fit to put this brutality in. It's a violation of trust between them and their audience. It would be like putting a graphic very rape scene in the middle of the Sopranos. Yes, it's an 18, but that doesn't mean you can do what the fuck you like.

    3. 'Films show this kind of stuff all the time and no-one notices'. Oh really? How many films can you name that had 10 minutes of relentless slaughter of unarmed civilians? Without any attempt to restore any sense of humanity afterwards?

    4. 'you don't have to shoot'. No, but you have to let them shoot, so you're complicit in the crime. It's totally implausible that you're character wouldn't just shoot the bad guys, regardless of the supposed value of keeping his cover.

    This strikes me as incredibly ill-conceived, manipulative crap. I've been an FPS player for over a decade, but IW have done the equivalent of leaving a turd in the swimming pool. A real turd that is

    Reply »
  • pugster
    pugster

    11/13/2009 8:33:03 AM

    @hizzle:

    Reply »
  • hizzle
    hizzle

    11/12/2009 11:19:02 PM

    Well said Kyle.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 11:02:56 PM

    @Myst3rium:

    Good lord... I didn't find it _offensive_. I found it _affecting_. I'm _not_ saying this scene should not be in the game. I _am_ saying that the realism of the scene (and the suffering of the defenseless victims) made it harder for me to participate.

    Believe me, at the end of the day I know it is a game and I am able to separate games from reality. From the original: "On a deeper level, I know that the people they killed are just digital bits in a computer and pixels on a screen." I KNOW!

    But that doesn't mean I'm just going to turn off my brain and shoot at whatever's in front of me without thinking about it. The game is pushing this realistic terrorism scene in your face for a reason. They want you to consider what you're doing -- even though it is virtual -- as if it were real. They want you to think about the complex moral aspects of the situation you've been placed in and make a decision for yourself about what you would do _IF_ the situation was real (and I am aware IT IS NOT).

    This is what a game can do much better than a movie that showed a similar scene. You get to decide whether or not to pull that trigger. You get to look that suffering, crawling man in the face and decide whether or not to end his life.

    When it's over, of course you look back and know you didn't _really_ kill anybody. But if you engaged with the game on its level -- if you let yourself get swept up in the masterful set piece the developers have created -- maybe you'll actually learned something about yourself in the process of playing. I felt I did, and that's what prompted me to write the piece.

    Or you can tell yourself "it's just a game" and remain intellectually detached and disconnected as you play, just shooting at the pretty people because they happen to be there. You're free to do that, but if you do, I don't think you're really engaging with the game at the level the developers want you to, and I don't think you're getting all you can out of the scene.

    Reply »
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  • KingArmery
    KingArmery

    11/12/2009 8:56:05 PM

    I am happy the live chat about this is tomorrow. I just hope I can make it to see what happens.

    The arguement right now is going around in circles...personally I wasn't affected by the youtube video of it (which could be totally different watching it rather than playing the mission), but I do understand the whole notion of it being a new experience, and not necessarily an enjoyable one.

    I must admit, I think it was a good choice on IW's part to include it. It is giving a more realistic sense to the terrorism portrayed in video games, which is making the player think about what they are doing. But do I think that IW should ever do a mission like this again? Probably not.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 7:58:19 PM

    @Myst3rium:

    They don't accept "it's a game", I tried. Might as well move on.

    Reply »
  • Myst3rium
    Myst3rium

    11/12/2009 7:52:07 PM

    I'm sorry but this is just pathetic. You're talking about blood shooting out of the victims in "thin red lines"? All you see is bodies, and pools of blood. There are no visible wounds on any of them.

    IT IS A GAME. It's not real. The people are not real, nothing about it is real. If you can't separate a game from reality then you shouldn't be playing it in the first place.

    "I walk up to him and aim right at his temple, considering for a long moment whether or not to put him out of his misery, but I just can't pull the trigger."

    ^ Are you kidding me? You need to grow up a bit if you have trouble shooting people in a SHOOTING game. What makes this even more pathetic is that it gives you the option to skip this mission. It tells you that it might be offensive to some people.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 7:37:47 PM

    @KyleOrland:

    lol.

    Good news. I got an email about a live chat about this subject taking place here tomorrow. That wasn't the good news. They said Scott Jones was going to be there. BWAHAHAHA! Finally! He won't be able to avoid me!

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 6:31:57 PM

    @notababy:

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

    Reply »
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  • notababy
    notababy

    11/12/2009 5:41:50 PM

    it's a video game. stop crying.

    Reply »
  • hizzle
    hizzle

    11/12/2009 4:06:14 PM

    Also, movies are for entertainment and popcorn. films are for confronting issues and humanity.

    they just stuck 5 min of the "World Trade Center" movie into Arnold Schwarzeneggers "Commando". Doesn't belong there, doesn't fit.

    Bad taste, bad execution, all around poor choice.

    I like the game. I play it. I love the multiplayer. Just not a fan of No Russian or the swiss cheese arguments being used to defend it's 'artistic value'.

    Reply »
  • hizzle
    hizzle

    11/12/2009 3:37:36 PM

    just to check back in...

    can anyone on the thread tell the difference between a first person shooter with hyper realistic depth-of-field focus effects, and a 3rd person cartoon world that lets me kill 300 police officers in my own neighborhood and say hi to a cop the next day? Anyone?

    ok

    can anyone on the thread tell the difference between watching someone get blown away in a movie and actually pulling an xbox trigger? Anyone?

    no?

    no comparison to GTA no comparison to movies. peri-od
    this is new. it is it's own beast. top of it's category. and it's scary that some people actually enjoy it.

    also, this level is not only in extremely bad taste but it's boring.

    they could have had so many dope undercover missions, but instead they settle for one pointless random act of terror...... with a disabled run button.

    It doesn't even make you THINK. It's there for shock value, and so people can post about in on message boards.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 12:47:24 PM

    @KyleOrland:

    I just ate lunch so i'm a lot more mellow now. You win.

    Reply »
  • Sketched Gecko
    Sketched Gecko

    11/12/2009 12:34:29 PM

    Okay, I know this is hard for you all to realize, but can anyone here get fully automatic heavy weaponry and bullet proof vests, walk into an airport with a Russian terrorist, and slaughter civilians? But for the people saying oh it's not like GTA4, can you take your car down the street and run someone over, or crash into someone out on the highway? Guess what, running someone over is easier. Let's go with your choices, you chose to play the mission, you chose to either watch or fire on civilians, but even before that you chose to buy the game. Guess what, war ain't pretty, it ain't heroic and people die all the time. Civilians were killed when WE bombed Hiroshima and Germany during WW2, civilians were killed during bombings in Iraq and Iran. The only difference is you didn't get to see that because the government was nice and said let's sensor it!! And they did. Get over the games scene. I hope they do it again. This isn't just a game. This is a game about WAR.

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  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 12:29:04 PM

    @Catastrophic1:

    A higher standard than _what_ exactly? I mean it's obviously a game, but saying it's "just" a game implies that it shouldn't be taken seriously, which is the opposite of what you said at the start of your post. So I really don't get what you're trying to argue here. Sorry if that makes me "ignorant."

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 11:59:12 AM

    @KyleOrland:

    Every time you counter "it's not just a game", you hold it to a higher standard. Are you really that ignorant?

    Reply »
  • RyanKuo
    Game Trust Member
    RyanKuo (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 11:46:18 AM

    You're holding it to a higher standard than something that causes us to "change our views on things and open our eyes to new views" obv. Oh wait.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 11:31:29 AM

    @Catastrophic1:

    Who's holding it to a higher standard, exactly?

    Reply »
  • massacre
    massacre

    11/12/2009 11:29:33 AM

    I think this is one of the greatest levels in any video game. I have been waiting for something like this to just kill innocent people. It's about time they made something on this level. My friend on Xbox plays this level multiple times every time he plays. I have talked to people in my college classes and they all love it too. Before everyone goes around calling me a terrorist, I'm just a normal white college kid.

    Reply »
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  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 10:48:27 AM

    @MSUSteve:

    Yes games can be meaningful, evoke emotions and cause us to think about things but the bottom line is this: it's still a game. Movies make us feel emotions and can cause us to change our views on things and open our eyes to new views, but in the end they are still movies. Just because it makes you feel something doesn't mean we should hold it to a higher standard than what it actually is.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 10:43:06 AM

    @Catastrophic1:

    Yeah, I'm really not sure who you're arguing with. I suppose there are people out there arguing that IW should not have included this scene in the game, but none of them are in this thread...

    Reply »
  • MSUSteve
    MSUSteve

    11/12/2009 10:04:14 AM

    @Catastrophic1: I'm not sure how you could agree with Ryan and yet state that I don't have a point. I think we were both trying to say the same thing about the "it's *just* a game" argument that you put forth. Games can be meaningful and say something and evoke emotional responses. That reality is antithetical to the "it's just a game" argument. There is no way to categorically say that all games are *just* games.

    You're setting up this weird straw man argument that no one is making. No one is "getting bent out of shape" about this. We're just talking about the impact of the scene and what, if anything, it is trying to say. Some people are affected by it more than others, but I don't think anyone is saying, "Damn IW for including this. It's a travesty of justice!" Okay, maybe Tom Chick said that over at Fidgit, but I don't think anyone here is saying that.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 9:51:35 AM

    @RyanKuo:

    RyanKuo is actually right. This is new material and people need to talk about this stuff. It's kind of like group therapy. Cheers and good luck to you.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/12/2009 9:42:03 AM

    I can't believe people are really getting this bent out of shape over this part of the game. Do everyone a favor and just stop playing if you can't handle the content within. It's a game about *gasp* war!


    @MSUSteve:

    I'm not sure what your point is. Yes it is just a game, it's not a cliche...its the reality. And yes, they were tapping into our emotions, we've established that.

    In defense to the softy game players among us. Perhaps IW should have either not offered this part as a playable portion, but rather a cutscene, or take out working with Makarov directly and have it just be with his men, offering you the chance to kill the men off and save lives and in turn a branching storyline ensues. Then again, like I've said, I haven't played this game yet and from what I've heard and seen **SPOILER** the point of the whole thing was for your character to be killed off anyway, leading to the next events.

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  • RyanKuo
    Game Trust Member
    RyanKuo (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 9:34:26 AM

    "It's just a game" gamers love to think they have total control over everything -- from the game itself ("I can and will shoot everything lulz") to the blurry divide between the media we consume and the reality we live in ("It's just a game").

    If you think you're so great for not ever being affected by doing horrible stuff in a game, then you might as well say you'll never be scared or excited when you watch a film, or moved or absorbed when you read a book. It's like saying things can't affect you because they're imaginary. Some crazy middlebrow American idea of pure will triumphing over content and ideas.

    Of course you're affected by the things you experience. Even if you point and laugh at it, that's a specific response you're giving to what you saw and did in a game. Feeling blithe and happy about massive game carnage as a rule probably means you're taking some serious shit out in your subconscious.

    And besides, there's this other unquestioned idea that games are better for trying to provide new experiences and express deeper things. OK, well, that's the point of a post like this -- to get to the bottom of what that new experience feels like. The "it's just a game" gamers actively discouraging this kind of convo are what make all of us look like a bunch of complacent selfish idiots.

    Reply »
  • MSUSteve
    MSUSteve

    11/12/2009 8:52:14 AM

    I find the comments stating that one should heed the warning of the "pretty little box" and elect not to play the scene to be way off the mark. I don't think Kyle's point was to say that the scene shouldn't have been included in the game or that he was pissed about being forced to play it or something. He, and others, are simply giving their reactions to the scene itself.

    The "it's just a game" argument is so dumb, so played out, and so off the mark as to be a bad cliche' at this point. Yeah, it's a game. But why can't a game try to say something and why can't a game affect one emotionally or make one think? I'm not even saying IW did a great job doing any of those things with this particular scene, but it seems to me that they were trying and that's commendable.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet
    Game Trust Member
    CG-Prophet (Game Trust Writer)

    11/12/2009 7:52:30 AM

    @HansoH:

    My brother barely escaped the Twin Towers attack. Needless to say, he never goes into NY anymore. He also swore off video games after that too. He would probably find this game in poor taste.

    Reply »
  • hizzle
    hizzle

    11/12/2009 12:50:10 AM

    They've got a note card in the box that says 'whoops we accidentally said 24 people could play multiplayer at once, our bad' but when it comes to the most potent interactive digital massacre to date all you get is 'one level may be offensive'. bad form. bad form.

    Reply »
  • hizzle
    hizzle

    11/12/2009 12:33:25 AM

    some of you people need meds.

    i'm the kind of gamer who will fire a rocket into a dead body and even i didn't fire a single round during the first half of that mission.

    it is ten times more realistic as GTA4. If all of GTA4 was first person carnage of people struggling to crawl away while bleeding or people pulling other people out of harms way only to be shot in the head it would be banned.

    the level went on forever. i could see maybe one or TWO lines of people being shot, but you end up taking out / watching 4 floors of people die. i'm sure an actual body count will surface at some point.

    there are countless other ways they could tell the story. And that warning at the beginning? OH excuse me if thats not the vaguest cop out ever.

    hey we put a warning sticker on the box, is it cool if three missions in we turn u into the digital equivalent of the v-tech shooter?

    yeah. it's just a game. and no it's not real. doesn't mean it's not in bad taste.

    Reply »
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  • HansoH
    HansoH

    11/12/2009 12:30:16 AM

    So, how many of you have lived through a real terrorist attack?
    Ever spoken to someone who was evacuated at 4 in the morning after 30 hours of hiding? Had their neighbors head blown off?

    Maybe not, but surely, you've spent years of your life going to your favorite restaurant, with friends.. maybe even your first date.. you know,.. those special places that have amazing memories for you.. and watch on TV as they show you the aftermath of what the terrorists did to it... bullet holes, blood.. dead bodies of waiters who probably served you.. customers.. just like you a month before..

    That? You've been through that atleast.. right?
    How about family who's been shot.. went for a fancy dinner at a hotel and didn't come back..(lucky for me, I don't)

    So, to all those people, who live nice safe lives.. You can't understand. It's a game, yeh... Everyone's free to express their creativity... but.. sometimes.. maybe Developers should think a little little more.

    It's just about one year since November 26th. It's a hard time for a lot of us in Mumbai. Sorry for the overthetop emotion.

    Reply »
  • Pun
    Pun

    11/11/2009 11:55:01 PM

    They've taken scene way out of context i understand where people are coming from about murdering civilians. But the scene is a intrigual part of the story, What would you rather have a video of the terrorists killing or being able to play it?
    I don't find it inhumane or sad because its reality people will always kill in the name of patriotism, religion or Because they just enjoy taking someones life.
    And IW tells the viewer that war whatever the circumstances is never justified.

    And no I'm not a consciousness objector.

    Reply »
  • eebeeno
    eebeeno

    11/11/2009 11:07:23 PM

    Wow thats some of the best graphics I have ever sen!

    JT
    www.anon-tools.mirrorz.com

    Reply »
  • superator
    superator

    11/11/2009 10:49:37 PM

    I felt horrible even the next day! I felt sick to my stomach, and I've played most violent games ever created. Something was crossed in that part of the game, I think it was the realness of the scene; women crying and screaming, people begging for their lives. It all felt real and wrong! I was not ready to feel that way, and I never expected I could feel that way playing a video game.

    Reply »
  • xxs1n702xx
    xxs1n702xx

    11/11/2009 10:10:44 PM

    It's funny how no one is really mentioning that before you start the game there's a little box that pops up. This pretty little box clearly states that there is a scene in the game that might offend some people. Then there's two choices you can make....Leave that scene in....Skip that scene... After you make your choice another little box pops up. This pretty box asks for a second time if your first choice is really what you want to do. If you leave it in can you really be mad? You chose to see it. You made the decision. You had a choice. It's like burning your hand in a fire. You know it's hot but you touched it anyways.

    Reply »
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  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/11/2009 9:38:43 PM

    @Tweedles:

    A I mentioned in an earlier comment, GTA didn't affect me nearly as much. Probably because the violence (and general game environment) there is cartoonishly over the top, to the point of parody, where here it's presented very realistically.

    "It's a game."

    Yes it is. Does that mean it's not allowed to make me think?

    "You see far worse things in movies."

    You do. And they're usually less powerful in the movies, even. Did I miss the secret paragraph where I wrote that people shouldn't be able to see and/or play this level? No... I think every adult should try it and see how it affects them.

    "Innocent people die all the time. Get over it."

    Sorry if the thought of innocent people dying isn't something I just brush off casually. Yeah, these aren't real people on the screen, but you have to be completely disconnected to not even _think_ about similar real life slaughters as you're playing...

    @lavi:

    In the seventh paragraph I mention I could have turned the game off, but that would just be avoiding the situation. I feel the same way about skipping the level through an in-game prompt.

    Reply »
  • Blackarrow015
    Blackarrow015

    11/11/2009 9:12:34 PM

    @wii_games_guide:

    Honestly though, it asks if you want to play "that level" and its a major part of the game...you're an undercover agent for america trying to infiltrate the russians you dont have to kill any unarmed civilians but the police will kill you anyway...this one level literally sets up the ENTIRE STORY & PLOT!!!

    Reply »
  • wii_games_guide
    wii_games_guide

    11/11/2009 9:08:10 PM

    It's a false comparison to say people wouldn't make so big a deal about this if it were a movie. A movie can't make you complicit in a horrifying act, while this game can. Although I would say if you recreated this scene in this way, giving the audience a first person view of a truly horrific terrorist attack, people would certainly find it very disturbing and upsetting.

    Since I haven't played the game but only seen the youtube video I don't know how this works in context, but out of context it really is hard to watch.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/11/2009 8:19:16 PM

    I think lavi and Tweedles did a good job of explaining the situation. I'm actually much more concerned for an individual who plays a video game and can't do something because they think it's morally, etchically or whatever-ly wrong than a person who does it anyway because it's a video game! The game is rated M. Don't buy it for your kids, play it as an adult who can (should) be able to discern that what is ok in a video game may not be so in real life.


    @CG-Gabe:

    Yeah I watched the same video. I actually laughed because of reading candy-coated Kyle's version of the scenerio where he refuses to fire a single shot and then the guy in the video is slaughtering people en-masse.

    Reply »
  • lavi
    lavi

    11/11/2009 6:31:34 PM

    did you all forget you could have skipped the mission?

    You knew it was coming and you were asked at the beginning do you want to avoid that level and it even asked you an are you sure.

    But you all wanted to see the blood, you all wanted to see the violence and you wanted to see what was going to happen so you chose give me the disturbing content.

    So yes you could have done something about it.

    Reply »
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  • Tweedles
    Tweedles

    11/11/2009 6:30:22 PM

    I think you are all overly sensitive goons.

    GTA is far worse, and this article was sensationalist at best. "OMG I couldn't stop him, I couldn't bear to pull the trigger." Give me a break.

    It's a game. You see far worse things in movies. Innocent people die all the time. Get over it.

    Reply »
  • KingArmery
    KingArmery

    11/11/2009 2:37:05 PM

    @KyleOrland:

    I don't think it's "crossing the line", but more "shoving you in its direction".

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/11/2009 12:21:58 PM

    @Catastrophic1:

    Yeah, it's not just watching, it's the ability (not requirement) to participate that has people up in arms. Like I said, I don't know whether it "crosses the line," but it definitely is more powerful for your first-person viewpoint and the potential to participate.

    Reply »
  • CG-Gabe
    CG-Gabe

    11/11/2009 12:19:17 PM

    @Catastrophic1:

    In the video I watched, the player was very actively participating in the slaughter. You agree that there's a difference between the active participation a videogame provides vs. the passive watching of a movie, right?

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/11/2009 11:42:02 AM

    Ok, since I don't have the game yet either, I checked out the mission on YouTube as well. Yeah, there's terrorists killing civilians. Ok? If this was a movie, people would accept it as is. But it's a video game and people get upset and/or uncomfortable.

    The video game industry is evolving. They are trying to reach our emotions in different ways now. Instead of just giving us what we want and letting us have that gratification, now we're going to be given scenerios that push our level of morality.

    I like it. I look forward to more of it. I hear Heavy Rain also does things of this nature (uncomforable gaming moments) and it's what a maturing gaming culture needs. People will remember these moments and it will cause other game studios to try their hand at it and all will benefit from the expereince.

    Reply »
  • BrettK
    BrettK

    11/11/2009 11:10:45 AM

    This is not my type of game. Since I will never play it, I found the episode on youtube.

    I have to say that it certainly made me uncomfortable. I want my gaming entertainment to be entertaining, not challenging to my world view or causing me to think deeply (other than to solve puzzles).

    If I were playing through this game, I would be forced to consider whether the ends justify the means, both before the mission and in hindsight. I am not condemning the game, but I am saying it would not be what I seek out in a game.

    Reply »
  • MSUSteve
    MSUSteve

    11/11/2009 10:48:28 AM

    The first thing I did when the mission started was try to prevent the massacre. The game doesn't even give you the satisfaction of killing Makarov and then showing you a failed mission screen. You simply cannot kill him. Resigned to my inability to avert the massacre I simply walked along while the others did the killing. I didn't fire a shot. The repetition of maybe a half dozen or so civilian models really cut into the believability of the scene and thus my reaction to it. It certainly would've been more effective if there weren't so many obvious clones. That's a huge oversight to me in a scene that wants to have some emotional gravity.

    Like you Kyle, I tried to wait out the assault on the police officers. I didn't want to shoot them and figured my character, if things had worked out differently, could've been one of them. Certainly these guys were brothers in arms to my Army Ranger at the very least. But to proceed in the game I had to shoot, and so I did. And I got used to it. And I hunted down a few stragglers that my cohorts might've killed because I wanted to move on and because I was sick of them shooting at me. This WAS effective. I was, however superficially, an active part of the massacre at that point.

    The ending of the scene can only be described as tragic. The senselessness of all that came before and my character's (and my country's) culpability in it are made even more poignant by the way it wraps up. To say more would be too spoilery.

    Reply »
  • RyanKuo
    Game Trust Member
    RyanKuo (Game Trust Writer)

    11/11/2009 10:40:30 AM

    From what I've read the scene will definitely remind the player to be shocked and outraged at real-life acts of terrorism. My question is, does this scene -- being bookended by the more standard blockbuster sequences in which you triumphantly (I assume) carry out your American military might -- simply end up making you feel more patriotic, more bloodthirsty, and more terrified of the rest of the world? I mean the word "revenge" in your write-up is pretty striking.

    Reply »
  • KyleOrland
    Game Trust Member
    KyleOrland (Game Trust Writer)

    11/11/2009 10:22:46 AM

    @Catastrophic1:

    It was different than running someone down in GTA, for me, because the violence there is almost cartoonish in comparison, with bodies flying through the air ridiculously. The extreme, unflinching realism of this scene affected me more than anything.

    @Newbrof:

    No, it probably wouldn't, and I'm not saying Infinity Ward should have put one in. But the fact that I didn't even think of using my guns on the Russians until after it was over did trouble me.

    Reply »
  • KyleBaron
    KyleBaron

    11/11/2009 9:51:35 AM

    I just came back from a day working at my retail job, so I was more than happy to take it out on some nondescript game people.

    Reply »
  • Catastrophic1
    Catastrophic1

    11/11/2009 9:35:50 AM

    I, for one, have no problem gunning down innocents in video games. It is, afterall, a video game. It's no different than running people over in GTA games. Sure, it's a specific scenerio, but it's all the same. Then again, maybe I'm just a twisted bastard...I don't know.

    Reply »
  • CG-Prophet
    Game Trust Member
    CG-Prophet (Game Trust Writer)

    11/11/2009 5:47:51 AM

    Interesting stuff Kyle. Choices are always good, but chances are i'd probably just go along for the ride. That's what I do, that's how I roll.


    Reply »
  • Newbrof
    Newbrof

    11/11/2009 4:33:29 AM

    Killing the terrorists would be no option, because IW don't have a Plan B story line .... the problem is that you don't have a choice (that's the problem with all COD games)... but even a binary choice would not be very satisfying, no?

    Reply »
  • Uhfgood
    Uhfgood

    11/11/2009 2:38:18 AM

    Personally I don't think it's morally correct to force someone to do this, it ceases to become a game then. I mean you are playing this for fun, and entertainment? Even if used as a statement the game should have let you been able to overcome the terrorists. The point being when you realized you could have done something it should have let you. This gets you personally involved more than you should be, and possibily desensitizes you. Once they start doing more of that kind of thing then people will get used to it, so that when real incidences happen people will no longer be shocked by it, society loses as a whole.

    Reply »

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